BLAHMNI

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{"contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"blahmni"}

The New Thought Police: The NSA Wants to Know How You Think— Maybe Even What You Think

News Type: Opinion — Seeded on Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:48 PM EST

Article Source: PBS

Seeded by blahmni

The National Security Agency (NSA) is developing a tool that George Orwell's Thought Police might have found useful: an artificial intelligence system designed to gain insight into what people are thinking.

With the entire Internet and thousands of databases for a brain, the device will be able to respond almost instantaneously to complex questions posed by intelligence analysts. As more and more data is collected—through phone calls, credit card receipts, social networks like Facebook and MySpace, GPS tracks, cell phone geolocation, Internet searches, Amazon book purchases, even E-Z Pass toll records—it may one day be possible to know not just where people are and what they are doing, but what and how they think.

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Public Discussion (54)

{"commentId":5182455,"authorDomain":"blahmni"}

blahmni

The original goal of Aquaint, which dates back to the 1990s, was simply to develop a sophisticated method of picking the right needles out of a vast haystack of information and coming up with the answer to a question. As with TIA, many universities were invited to contribute brainpower to the project. But in the aftermath of the attacks on 9/11, with the creation of the NSA's secret warrantless eavesdropping program and the buildup of massive databases, the project began taking on a more urgent tone.

{"commentId":5182455,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"blahmni"}

7 votes

#1 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 6:52 PM EST

{"commentId":5183708,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

gladbutterfly

They should use these devices on Bush, Cheney, Rove, Addington, etc.

{"commentId":5183708,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

7 votes

#2 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 7:59 PM EST

{"commentId":5184130,"authorDomain":"nearing"}

nearing

Ha, good one, glad.

{"commentId":5184130,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"nearing"}

6 votes

#2.1 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:30 PM EST

{"commentId":5241827,"authorDomain":"Karri-M"}

Karri-M

It would be interesting to see if Bush even had a thought! As for the rest of them -- did they ever have a reality based thought! (LOL)

{"commentId":5241827,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"Karri-M"}

1 vote

#2.2 - Sat Feb 7, 2009 8:59 PM EST

{"commentId":5184192,"authorDomain":"nearing"}

nearing

As more and more data is collected—through phone calls, credit card receipts, social networks like Facebook and MySpace, GPS tracks, cell phone geolocation, Internet searches, Amazon book purchases, even E-Z Pass toll records—it may one day be possible to know not just where people are and what they are doing, but what and how they think.

This is a good reason to use these as little as possible.

Orwell warned us.

{"commentId":5184192,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"nearing"}

9 votes

#3 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:34 PM EST

{"commentId":5184696,"authorDomain":"hhabilis"}

hhabilis

Little Brother is a very interesting novel by Cory Doctorow, inspired by Orwell. In the near future, four San Francisco gamers are caught up in the DHS crackdown following a terrorist bombing.

It is an extremely well-written story involving the clash between the desire for security and the desire for freedom, and the lengths to which each side will go. Because the civil libertarians are geeks, and DHS makes use of the sort of technology discussed in the article, it makes for an interesting struggle, one which could very well happen in reality.

There's a free download available; I'm not sure admin will let me post links yet, but I'll give it a stab.

OK, that didn't work. Try this: craphound . com / littlebrother / download /

{"commentId":5184696,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"hhabilis"}

7 votes

#3.1 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:05 PM EST

{"commentId":5185037,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

gladbutterfly

Thanks for the reference. Downloaded and soon to be read.

{"commentId":5185037,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

4 votes

#3.2 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:25 PM EST

{"commentId":5185071,"authorDomain":"hhabilis"}

hhabilis

:-D

{"commentId":5185071,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"hhabilis"}

3 votes

#3.3 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:27 PM EST

{"commentId":5186316,"authorDomain":"blahmni"}

blahmni

Thanks for the link, hhabilis! Can't wait to start reading...

{"commentId":5186316,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"blahmni"}

3 votes

#3.4 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 10:54 PM EST

{"commentId":5186874,"authorDomain":"LeeMB"}

Lee B

I don't know, I don't see it being used as proof of anything. I mean going into court and saying "Well our computer says this is what you're thinking" won't really hold up. You can't even get a ticket in court just because a camera took you photo. The officer who wrote the ticket still has to show up.

It's a step in an interesting direction, but I don't see it being an issue for a very long time.

{"commentId":5186874,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"LeeMB"}

2 votes

#3.5 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 11:37 PM EST

{"commentId":5187574,"authorDomain":"hhabilis"}

hhabilis

Lee, there are several jurisdictions where tickets are automatically generated and mailed based on red light camera data; Denver is one.

{"commentId":5187574,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"hhabilis"}

4 votes

#3.6 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 12:53 AM EST

{"commentId":5187635,"authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

alanwillingham

Where is the red light district in Denver?

{"commentId":5187635,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

3 votes

#3.7 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 1:01 AM EST

{"commentId":5187900,"authorDomain":"LeeMB"}

Lee B

Lee, there are several jurisdictions where tickets are automatically generated and mailed based on red light camera data; Denver is one.

That's how it always works. That's when you go to court and fight it. If you do that, it doesn't matter what the video shows, the officer still has to show up for prosecution. If the officer doesn't show, they can't go through with the ticket.

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#3.8 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 1:39 AM EST

{"commentId":5189408,"authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

alanwillingham

What officer?

You mean the guy who reads the printouts downloaded at the end of the day?

{"commentId":5189408,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

2 votes

#3.9 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 7:58 AM EST

{"commentId":5195467,"authorDomain":"Blearc"}

Blearc

in Denver: commerce city, or something like that.

{"commentId":5195467,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"Blearc"}

1 vote

#3.10 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 1:11 PM EST

{"commentId":5241864,"authorDomain":"Karri-M"}

Karri-M

How about Boulder? Or Colfax?

{"commentId":5241864,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"Karri-M"}

1 vote

#3.11 - Sat Feb 7, 2009 9:02 PM EST

{"commentId":5184194,"authorDomain":"shub"}

Shub Tnediserp Remrof

I'm not thinking of anything now what are they going to do?

{"commentId":5184194,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"shub"}

6 votes

#4 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:34 PM EST

{"commentId":5184267,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

gladbutterfly

Hey, you've got a point there, backwards bush. We just all need to empty our minds and chant OOOOOMMMMMMMMM. Unfortunately, what those control-freaks forget is that "what you are thinking" is a process, and can never be completely defined, even by HAL.

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7 votes

#4.1 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:38 PM EST

{"commentId":5185141,"authorDomain":"shub"}

Shub Tnediserp Remrof

Technology can only dig so far into the human mind. The human mind is the greatest computer in the world.

{"commentId":5185141,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"shub"}

6 votes

#4.2 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:32 PM EST

{"commentId":5186624,"authorDomain":"nofluer"}

Nofluer

The human mind is the greatest computer in the world.

And at the same time the most screwed up.

{"commentId":5186624,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"nofluer"}

3 votes

#4.3 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 11:19 PM EST

{"commentId":5198634,"authorDomain":"aine"}

Aine MacDermot

Who said computers have to "think" like humans do? Are we so arrogant that we believe the ways our minds work are superior to all other ways? If so, that in itself may be our undoing.

Studying the works and thoughts of Ray Kurzweil and Hans Moravec may give you some things to think twice about. ;) Here's a piece in the Independent from about a year ago to stimulate your thoughts. *grin*

Ignoring for a moment the somewhat paranoid implications... Can you imagine what games of the future might be like when computers can anticipate what we will do next and then modify the game and/or its environment on-the-fly? We live in interesting times, my friends.

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7 votes

#4.4 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 3:36 PM EST

{"commentId":5184537,"authorDomain":"dcstone01"}

dcstone01

Bookmarked and sending to everyone I know.

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4 votes

#5 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 8:55 PM EST

{"commentId":5184689,"authorDomain":"Plissken"}

SnakePlissken

Is this the same NSA that claimed ignorance that the 9/11 hijackers were staying in a motel 2 miles away from the NSA a week prior to the attacks... with the hijackers placing phone calls to UBL's headquarters in Yemen? That NSA? The same NSA that answers to no one, and hasn't explained how it dropped the biggest ball in modern history? The same NSA that already reads your emails and taps into your phone calls on a routine basis without a warrant? That NSA? The NSA that is more concerned about violating your liberties that protecting our nation in a lawful manner? The NSA who operates above the law?

That NSA?

{"commentId":5184689,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"Plissken"}

9 votes

#6 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:04 PM EST

{"commentId":5184788,"authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

Nancy-400923

Hmph. Businesses have been doing this for years openly. When they study people's shopping habits they are looking directly into their lives as well as their thoughts. If you've ever studied body-language, you'd realize just how simple deductive psychology is...some of the brighter would even learn how to read minds.

{"commentId":5184788,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

1 vote

#7 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:11 PM EST

{"commentId":5217713,"authorDomain":"bker1492"}

BKER1492

Absolutely. What do you think all those website cookies are doing. Sending your movements back to companies so they can figure out your next desire.

{"commentId":5217713,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"bker1492"}

2 votes

#7.1 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:30 PM EST

{"commentId":5217831,"authorDomain":"myriver"}

River-239955

It's so cute the way they try and decipher minds through their studies. They've yet to figure me right.

{"commentId":5217831,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"myriver"}

2 votes

#7.2 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:34 PM EST

{"commentId":5218192,"authorDomain":"upswing"}

upswing

BKER1492:

Absolutely. What do you think all those website cookies are doing. Sending your movements back to companies so they can figure out your next desire.

This is so true. A couple of examples:

Went surfing for fares for a possible trip to Malaga, Spain. For the next month(ish) my screen was awash with Malaga info.

Recently bought a winter coat online. Now the right side of my screen frequently looks like a coat rack ...

We have no privacy any more. And that's a problem.

{"commentId":5218192,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"upswing"}

4 votes

#7.3 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:47 PM EST

{"commentId":5185028,"authorDomain":"Blearc"}

Blearc

Oh look the reason for that huge computer they are building for "keeping nuclear arsenal tracked"

{"commentId":5185028,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"Blearc"}

6 votes

#8 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:24 PM EST

{"commentId":5185376,"authorDomain":"philc3"}

Hayduke1

No need to check up on Rush Limbaugh's "Dittohead" listeners or Hannity's "Proud Americans." They don't have any thoughts of their own.

{"commentId":5185376,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"philc3"}

5 votes

#9 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 9:48 PM EST

{"commentId":5186010,"authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

alanwillingham

That's right... just keep thinking that way

; )

{"commentId":5186010,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

2 votes

#9.1 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 10:32 PM EST

{"commentId":5186494,"authorDomain":"philc3"}

Hayduke1

TY, I will. I listen to both thoe blowhards all the time, in fact, i've called into them, only to be hung up only becuase I dont think their way.

{"commentId":5186494,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"philc3"}

1 vote

#9.2 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 11:09 PM EST

{"commentId":5186542,"authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

alanwillingham

Never tried to call either one. If I call into some entertainment program it will probably be in an attempt to win some free tickets to Hawaii or something similar...

...or maybe dedicate a song

{"commentId":5186542,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

1 vote

#9.3 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 11:12 PM EST

{"commentId":5185471,"authorDomain":"eric-albert"}

Eric AlbertDeleted

{"commentId":5186067,"authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

alanwillingham

Did anyone ever read the Science Fiction beginning in the 1930's and onward?

Even the comic page figure Dick Tracy had cellphones and digital cameras in te early 60's

None of this is new, unexpected or surprising

{"commentId":5186067,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

2 votes

#11 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 10:37 PM EST

{"commentId":5186447,"authorDomain":"corie-springer"}

moltke5104

Oh i want them to read my mind, of course afterwards they may resort to gouging their own eyes out, with a spoon.

{"commentId":5186447,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"corie-springer"}

1 vote

#12 - Wed Feb 4, 2009 11:05 PM EST

{"commentId":5191600,"authorDomain":"fugitive247"}

fugitive247

The system is so potentially intrusive that at least one researcher has quit, citing concerns over the dangers in placing such a powerful weapon in the hands of a top-secret agency with little accountability.

If IARPA is the spy world's DARPA, Aquaint may be the reincarnation of Poindexter's TIA.

"The technology behaves like a robot, understanding and answering complex questions," said a former Aquaint researcher.... A naturalized U.S. citizen who received her Ph.D. from Columbia, the researcher worked on the program for several years but eventually left due to moral concerns.

While I appreciate the necessity of reasonable comprehensive security measures, projects such as those described in The Spy Factory far exceed the boundaries of morality, ethics, and even basic respect for human dignity.

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7 votes

#13 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 10:20 AM EST

{"commentId":5197671,"authorDomain":"efucci"}

bitemore

If you folks think THIS is bad, you need to look up the latest in REAL mind-reading technology. I saw it a couple of weeks or so ago, on the news, on TV. It's a technology that allows a computer to read a mind, and although it is very basic right now, it is also very, very accurate. The news reporter allowed himself to be a guinea pig. He was shown a picture, and the computer was able to state perfectly what he had seen, simply by reading the guy's mind (he was in an MRI machine, and the computer was linked to that, reading the areas of the brain associated with the image the subject was seeing or thinking).

The story went on to relate how there is currently research into a device that, when pointed at someone's head, will return a signal showing exactly what the person is thinking. The object is eventually to use it (like a laser pointer) to scan for potential terrorists such as at airports or major events...

So, y'all think the thinking computer is scary? It doesn't really read minds, at least. The one I described really DOES read minds.

{"commentId":5197671,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"efucci"}

5 votes

#13.1 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 2:52 PM EST

{"commentId":5201428,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

gladbutterfly

I saw the story on that device too. Things are definitely getting to be 1984-like.

{"commentId":5201428,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

3 votes

#13.2 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 5:33 PM EST

{"commentId":5203242,"authorDomain":"efucci"}

bitemore

1984-like... 25 years late, but better late than never... and scary no matter when...

{"commentId":5203242,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"efucci"}

4 votes

#13.3 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 7:01 PM EST

{"commentId":5193904,"authorDomain":"wyld-ferret"}

Kittycat

So... they created an intelligent spybot? Wow, I'm... pretty unimpressed. Not only do I not think they can pull of the proper tech, I doubt they could ever learn to use it properly, much less put it to damaging use.

Yes, they suck donkey balls, but I don't have so much faith in them to consider them mind-readers. At any rate, there may be info on the internet, but does anyone really 'live' on it? There's no way to know what people are thinking just by monitering activity.

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1 vote

#14 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 12:08 PM EST

{"commentId":5196010,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

gladbutterfly

There's no way to know what people are thinking just by monitering activity.

You're right that there's no good way to know, but that wouldn't stop them from claiming to know and perpetrating injustice on a lot of people. The technology just has to be able to intimidate and impress people sufficiently to make them believe.

{"commentId":5196010,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

6 votes

#14.1 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 1:36 PM EST

{"commentId":5209150,"authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

Nancy-400923

I agree.

{"commentId":5209150,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

1 vote

#14.2 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:20 AM EST

{"commentId":5196321,"authorDomain":"myriver"}

River-239955

I would just scare them. It's best if only I know my mind.

{"commentId":5196321,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"myriver"}

4 votes

#15 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 1:50 PM EST

{"commentId":5196613,"authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

gladbutterfly

Heh, heh, River. Right on.

{"commentId":5196613,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"inghar2004"}

2 votes

#15.1 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 2:02 PM EST

{"commentId":5207024,"authorDomain":"upswing"}

upswing

I think the Thought Police might have a jurisdiction problem with Bush, Palin, Hannity etc ...

{"commentId":5207024,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"upswing"}

1 vote

#16 - Thu Feb 5, 2009 10:08 PM EST

{"commentId":5209019,"authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

Nancy-400923

Think of it...if you could read minds.....would crooks feel more joyful if they screwed you over just because all people could read minds? Sorry, lived with some crooks once...or twice....just playin' the devil's advocate.

{"commentId":5209019,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

#17 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:09 AM EST

{"commentId":5209133,"authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

alanwillingham

Well, thank your parole officer for allowing you use of the computer

{"commentId":5209133,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

2 votes

#17.1 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:18 AM EST

{"commentId":5209227,"authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

Nancy-400923

You USED my computer?!???

{"commentId":5209227,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

1 vote

#17.2 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:26 AM EST

{"commentId":5209323,"authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

alanwillingham

Now, now... I know what you're thinking...

; )

{"commentId":5209323,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

2 votes

#17.3 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:33 AM EST

{"commentId":5209362,"authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

Nancy-400923

I doubt it....

{"commentId":5209362,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

1 vote

#17.4 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 12:38 AM EST

{"commentId":5214429,"authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

alanwillingham

See...?

I knew that was it!

...this was too easy ; )

{"commentId":5214429,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"computersplus99"}

2 votes

#17.5 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 10:32 AM EST

{"commentId":5230643,"authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

Nancy-400923

Hehehehe...

{"commentId":5230643,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"riddlemedoooo"}

#17.6 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 11:25 PM EST

{"commentId":5211758,"authorDomain":"txtj1"}

txtj1

with the new tv shows like ,.lie to me ,.medium,.n cold case files ,.they no what were thinking ,.least i forget criminal minds

{"commentId":5211758,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"txtj1"}

1 vote

#18 - Fri Feb 6, 2009 8:12 AM EST

{"commentId":5274173,"authorDomain":"goldenvine"}

Super Jake

Well it woudn't take long for an open minded group of individuals to figure out a way to block this mind reading program or system by using the mind itself the most chaotic orderly computer there is.

{"commentId":5274173,"threadId":"491246","contentId":"2395966","authorDomain":"goldenvine"}

1 vote

#19 - Mon Feb 9, 2009 10:51 PM EST

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BLAHMNI

The New Thought Police: The NSA Wants to Know How You Think— Maybe Even What You Think

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